Here's one to maybe start some discussion on this tribe: Pinup girls and tattoos -- hot or not?
I am a purist -- I prefer no tattoos. I realize that tattoos are a retro-modern thing and widely accepted as such, but for me they spoil the beauty of a pinup. Less importantly, tattoos were never a part of the classic pinup look in the 50's/60's ("less" importantly because personal taste wins over historical accuracy in matters of aesthetics).
Everyone knows Olivia's famous "tattooed" Betty Page:
www.charmandising.com/images/...0503.jpg
Did the trend of tattooing pinups start here?
Comments?
I am a purist -- I prefer no tattoos. I realize that tattoos are a retro-modern thing and widely accepted as such, but for me they spoil the beauty of a pinup. Less importantly, tattoos were never a part of the classic pinup look in the 50's/60's ("less" importantly because personal taste wins over historical accuracy in matters of aesthetics).
Everyone knows Olivia's famous "tattooed" Betty Page:
www.charmandising.com/images/...0503.jpg
Did the trend of tattooing pinups start here?
Comments?
posted by:
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Poland
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 6:16 AMI've noticed that tattoos seem to go hand in hand with "dark pin ups" as opposed to "pin ups".
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:44 AMIn my humble opinion, a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman: tattoo or untattooed. It all boils down to personal preference: there's something for everyone out there. The pinup look is huge in the Rock-a-billy/Psychobilly genre, where tattoos are also popular; therefore, there a going to be quite a few tattooed pinup girls.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 10:22 AMOld school and wholesome feminine purity is what pinup is about . tattoos are not wholesome , they are edgy and modern and originally masculine.
Yes there are very beautiful women with tattoos but they are not pinups in the true sense.
If the Suicide Girls and some of those very hard looking prisonesque tattooed rock a billy clone girls think they have anything in common with Bettie Page or June Wilkinson they are delusional. It's like a large breasted woman trying to be Twiggy or a lily white girl trying to be Pam Greir sure it's a cute attempt to appropriate a theme but It's not about variations on the theme it's about the original intent of what a pinup was supposed to represent.
I think Olivia needs her eyes checked. The Bettie page she paint looks nothing like her, she gives her a cut stomach! ridiculous! -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 1:12 PM>>Old school and wholesome feminine purity is what pinup is about.
No. That's what old-school pinup is about. The word pinup has become too broad of a term to mean only one style.
Semantically it's a blanket term for many styles. The poses are more thematic than anyrhing else about pinups.
One of the origins of pinups was cutting celebs out of magazines. So what is the "true sense?"
Your delimitation of the word is like saying that industrial rock isn't really rock because it isn't rock n roll or original rock.
They're both rock. Pinup is now a term that encompasses several styles with the poses being the most common
component. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 2:18 PM> Pinup is now a term that encompasses several styles with the poses being the most common component.
In that case, anyone who poses the right way can be "pinup." This is a lovely thought, but I still think a certain "look" is necessary that not all women possess. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, September 25, 2007 - 6:42 PM"The word pinup has become too broad of a term to mean only one style."
I have to agree with Ra on this. Pin-Up like many themes in art is subject to much re-invention. To say that only one certain "look" can be a Pin-Up is sort of saying that Rock music can only be 3 chords and last 3.5 minutes long.
In fact, Pin-Up, like any major art theme, needs to grow and be re-invented from time to time or else it become irrelevant and stagnant. The "look" you claim is the definition of Pin-Up is really just a period in the larger continuum. Just as Cubism, Surrealism, Dada, etc. can be seen as periods in the larger framework of modern art. Images of the Suicide Girls have just as much claim to the title of Pin-Up as any picture by Bunny Yeager or Bettie Page. Maybe even more so, since they represent the most current incarnation of the form instead of one that is 50 years old. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 2:31 PM"Rock music can only be 3 chords and last 3.5 minutes long." actually that's completely true! Add 12 minute synth solos and it becomes Prog rock add Chick Corea and it becomes Jazz fusion rock... but not a true blue raw rock song as it was intended by the creators of the form.
The suicide girls and some of these dime a dozen Bettie Page black hair tattooed clones have absolutely no claim on true pin up tradition. In fact the are the Anti-Varga and the Anti-Playboy playmates circa 1950-1970. Many look like drug addicts, older than there years and just hardened. A pinup is fantasy but also a picture of how the sheer health and beauty of a woman can be unadulterated in nature or in a comfortable., charming setting. The SG and generic BP imitators all became pierced and tattooed beacuse everybody else was doing it sort of like the Gioth kids who cried in high school that they want self expression but all ended up looking alike. Star bellied sneetchs yes, pin ups and wholesome beauty ...no way.
Jane Russell, Bettie page, Jen Wilkinson, Luci Pinder (THAT'S A PINUP!), Sophia Loren, Bardot and Raquel are all 100% unique from each other these rockabilly chicks all look alike.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 2:39 PMAlso many of the girls calling themselves "pinups" could not evoke the style of the 1950's even if they wanted to because they don't have the physique, sort of like all the stick thin girls like Rachel Bilson or Olivia Munn who wanted to play Wonder Woman ala Lynda Carter-DREAM ON!
So there only choice is to try and strap on the post modernist pin up look in all it's hells angel heroin biker chick glory
There is one well know Bettie Page imitator who steals virtually everything Bettie has done; the clothes, hair, music, moves, set idea etc etc yet she's stick thin narrow hipped and looks like a complete phony without even the semblance of an hourglass figure . Sure she's cute but her inability to forge her own pinup persona amongst her tattoos and generic expressions is clearly on the wane. These girls all remind me of a haggard overtly muscular madonna trying to be Marilyn Monroe and the media backing her flat ass up. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 6:51 PM"Jane Russell, Bettie Page, Jen Wilkinson, Luci Pinder (THAT'S A PINUP!), Sophia Loren, Bardot and Raquel are all 100% unique from each other..."
Not completely unique...for starters they are all old enough to be Grandmothers (and in fact I believe a couple of them are).
It says something that none of these people has actually done a Pin-Up in the last 40 years. While there are those that believe that Fine Art died with the impressionists and others that Picasso and Pollock killed it with abstract expressionism. Artists didn't just stop creating stuff because a certain style fell out of vogue. My point is that you can still walk into any musuem and gallery and see new art on the wall. Just because a certain style has past mean the whole school of thought is dead. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Sun, September 30, 2007 - 3:16 PMJane Russell, Bettie Page, Jen Wilkinson, Luci Pinder (THAT'S A PINUP!), Sophia Loren, Bardot and Raquel are all 100% unique from each other..."
What i meant is that non of them have been rivaled yet for the work they did in their prime. You would have to go to Great Britain or Poland .
Only Craig Morey's model Natalie and few select others have come out of the states and evoke the truly healthy looking pinup girl aesthetic. Too many of the girls with tatts and piercings look like drug addicts or the great unwashed.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 6:31 PM..for starters they are all old enough to be Grandmothers
You got a Problem with that?
Actually they are in their late 60s to early 90s. Thirty-five is old enough to be a grandmother. Biologically I was old enough to be one before I was 30, if my theoretical daughter had matured at the same rate as I did. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 4:02 PMAwesome! Very true. I learned a lot from this post. I definitely see tatts in a more positive light now.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 11:09 PM>>many of the girls calling themselves "pinups" could not evoke the style of the 1950's even if they wanted to because they don't have the physique
Women still come in many shapes and sizes. That hasn't changed since the 50's. I do a lot of pinup photography.
I know several models that only do pinup style. Many of them have tatts and several of them are into the rockabilly scene.
Tatts aren't my thing. I prefer shooting models who have no tatts or pierces - or even tans. However most of the above-mentioned models that I've shot are very talented and skilled at making pinup photoart. I'm sure it wouldn't live up to your standards but it's pinup just the same. I feel there are constraints to the formula of pinup but I don't think having tatts is one of them. The aesthetic is really more about the pose, crop, simple background and sex appeal. Afterall the root meaning of pinup is simply a sexy image suitable for putting on the wall. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Sun, September 30, 2007 - 3:48 PM"After all the root meaning of pinup is simply a sexy image suitable for putting on the wall."
Good point. But like the term curvaceous which has unfortunately come to meet women who are really overweight I think staying with the traditional definition makes sense beacuse then it just become a Mooney wedding.
I'm sticking with wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin-up_girl
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Tue, January 15, 2008 - 6:30 PM"Old school and wholesome feminine purity is what pinup is about"
Wholesome? So if you're holding Bettie Page up as the epitome of wholesome purity, and she has quite a few well-known BDSM pin-up shoots out there, then a lot of the modern girls into edgier looks surely fit right in with that definition.
Also, I would argue that Vargas was not particularly "wholesome." George Petty and Elvgren, sure--very cute and perky, but pure, girls. Vargas' girls had a more knowing air about them, always. It's probably part of why he was more popular than Petty.
I think that the definition of pin-up can, and should be, an evolving thing, defined by the times. If I want to compare someone to the old school classic 50s pin-up, then I'll add those modifiers. But then, I'm a fusion belly dancer with a love of tribaret, so maybe I'm just more inclined to be inclusive and not tell people that what they're doing isn't the "right way" because it's not how they did it a few decades ago. All of these things have roots in other things, acknowledged or not. Belly dance as people think of it--the glitzy Hollywood cabaret dancers--has its roots in a much earthier folkloric dance that had none of the sequins a half century before. Yet the sequins are what people think of as "old school." Likewise, pin-ups from the 40s and 50s are what we think of as old school pin-ups, yet they had their roots in images like the Gibson girl.
It evolved. Art does that.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:49 AMI love tattoos. Obviously, some are great some are not. A beautiful girl with horrible tattoos... not that hot. A beautiful girl with beautiful tattoos. Totally hot. There are so many different types of pinups now. I love the oldschool pinup look and try to emulate that in a lot of my work. I have tattoos but they are on one side of my body. When I want to look more 'classic' pin-up I shoot the left side of my body.
I think what it comes down to though, reading through some of the other posts here, is this. A trashy looking girl is going to look trashy, tattooed or not. A classy looking girl can still look classy if shes got tats. Tattoos are part of you the same way that clothes and hair and makeup are when you get them. They are a reflection of you and what you like. A well designed, well done tattoo can be beautiful and even ENHANCE natural beauty, whereas... a prison tattoo is gonna make you look like... well, like you've been in prison....
I've seen gorgeous tattoed ladies and LOVE the 'modern retro' style pinups that a lot of them do. They are very rockabilly. You have to look at them for what they are. They are MODERN retro. They are based off of the classic pinup but are in no way trying to be authentic 50-60's style pinups. Look at them for what they are and you can appreciate the art there. Tattoos are becoming more and more popular and accepted, it just makes sense that more and more models are going to have the. Modern pin-ups are also skinnier. They are a product of today. If you want to be a famous model today, pinup or not, you have to be a stick. I'm a tiny girl, but I am not a stick. I'm totally ok with that, I like how i look and think the stick look is kinda gross... but because of that, I'm not going to ever become one of those names that you just recognize. The names of pinups that you recognize today are all tiny girls because unfortunately, thats what it takes to make money and be successful. There are some amazing looking women who do pinups who have your classic curves, but unless you are WAY into pinups, you will never know who they are. -
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:50 AMwow... I rambled for a long time. Thats what I get for posting before I have my coffee....
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:13 AM> If you want to be a famous model today, pinup or not, you have to be a stick...There are some amazing looking women who do pinups who have your classic curves, but unless you are WAY into pinups, you will never know who they are.
Forget about being a "famous" pinup model with today's rail-thin look being the standard. Those of us who prefer the classic curvy look will always find our muses, and it's a far more sacred service to be a muse to a few than to please the masses.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 3:14 PMActually few of the pin up models are well known beyond the myspace/rockabilly mag niche and none are truly household names or famous.
Believe me if anyone who had Sophia Loren's perfectly proportioned hourglass boy or Brigitte Bardot's ballerina limbed 35-20-35 stats they'd be a major star. The curveless look has emerged beacuse certain girls despite not having the body, do have the money and the capital to promote themselves.
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 3:24 PM"I have tattoos but they are on one side of my body. When I want to look more 'classic' pin-up I shoot the left side of my body."
What a beautiful portfolio!
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Re: Pinup girls and tattoos?
Sun, October 21, 2007 - 8:22 PMPin ups have evolved with the times just like everything else, punk, rave, whatever-
Untattooed pinups may be prefered for certain types of photographers because yes, its authentic- women didn't have tattoos in the 1950's unless they were hardcore bikers, in the circus or tribal from japan or new zealand....
I've met Olivia, I love and respect her- I think she is a pioneer for bringing tattooed pinups into the mainsteam-
she's also done watercolor paintings of cassandra peterson (aka elvira) who isn't tattooed and also masuimi max (who is tattooed) and both are sexy!
Anyway Olivia and Betty P are good friends so i'm sure she can't object to her tattooed paintings so much
:)
Thanks for letting me express my twocents
xoxo
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Re: PInup girls and tattoos?
Fri, December 21, 2007 - 10:55 AMEvery art evolves. It pisses traditional bellydancers off that there are now tattooed tribal/gothic bellydancers. Ya cant please everyone.
MY SISTER ALWAYS SAID, "IF YA DONT LIKE IT, DONT LOOK."
Sure tats can be a distraction. But women are still beautiful no matter what. I mean, if I saw a pin-up that had a flaming skull with maggots coming out of its eyes, on her lower back or something, then I agree. I believe in tasteful body art and tastless. -
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I80-Tattoos are BEAUTIFUL!
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 2:51 PMOk, so i completely changed my entire mind about pinup girls and tatts.
While not for me, tattoos can be absolutely beautiful on women. I guess I had to see this on a real live Kustom Kulture pin up gal like Hot Rod Hedi when we shot a scene this past weekend fro Go-Kustom film's "Hot Rod Girls save The world" to really get what it's all about. we can all change our minds when it comes to beauty thankfully!
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: I80-Tattoos are BEAUTIFUL!
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 9:34 AMpin ups gals and tattoos? HAWT! you want purity? read playboy. id rather grab my new issue of garage mag, car kulture deluxe and the others.
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